QuestionQUESTION: I have an odd pain- feels more like an itch or an irritation and feels like its inside my hip. On looking at body maps I can line it up with several points- its a definate point but I am unable to see my own back to tell! (Please excuse my spelling I am not an expert by any means! Its in line with the siatic joint as well as the Iliac Cresent and as well as the Quadratus Lumborum muscles- but not all the way up, just where it touches my hip bone).
Its driving me CRAZY! Its there when I walk, when I try to sleep, when I am sitting in a chair, really doesn't have a set point or any pattern, its there all the time. I exercise quite a bit, cardio and have done so for years (I am 29). After exercising I feel it ache rather then itch.
I also have noticed that I subconciously now pull at my hips- sort of as if I am trying to stretch my obliques as I have noticed if I pull at that muscle, whilst I am doing so the pain/ache/irriation subsides. It does return though- soon as I regain normal posture. I also notice that when I do pull at my hips, after exercise and the next day I get a horrible pinching sensation running down the outside of my thigh running towards my knee (worse at the top).
I have been to my doctor a month ago (its been 2 months with this) she said lowe back pain was common and the only thing I could do would be to stregnthen my core muscles which I have been doing to no effect. I do back extentions, core stability classes, sit ups...nothing helps.
I cannot touch it to massage it as it feels really deep inside my body. Its a similar sensation to exercises like buttox clenches- that horrible irriating sensation where its half pain and half ache and also something else- Leaves me in a bad mood and very irriated.
Pills do nothing. I have tried all the over the counter things and also a NSAID which is only available by prescription (Mefemniac Acid 500mg). Nothing takes the feeling away.
Is there any form of exercise I can do? is it a good idea to yank at my hips like that? -I'm guessing no but thought I should ask incase. (Its a subconcious thing anyway). I cannot afford a Physio and my doctor has no advice for me either. I would welcome any suggestions!
ANSWER: low back pain, hip pain, chiropractic, staten island low back pain, staten island hip pain, staten island chiropractic
Hello Jennie,
I am sorry to hear of your back/ hip pain.
Unless I read the question information incorrectly--- How are things in the United Kingdom ! ??
Isn't this internet thing wonderful?- Here I am in my Staten Island Chiropractic office, and you are in,,,, England, I guess????
Well you are in the right place. With all of the information on the Health Care debate here in the United States, it sounds like you in England have the best system around. Free healthcare to solve your health problems. We seem to be headed toward your great socialized health care system here on this side of the pond!
Your condition, your complaints are right up your Doctor's Alley!- go to your local Doctor of Chiropractic, get an examination, get an Xray, perhaps get an MRI and an EMG, fully evaluate your complaint, and then perhaps a regimen of Chiropractic would be appropriate.
It sounds like you have already been to your local Doctor of Medicine who told you pretty much that you have to '... live with it...'. Your pain is in all probability musculoskeletal- (i.e.: subluxation, more on that later) and should respond quite easily and readily to Chiropractic care. Have a complete evaluation (as stated previously- the physical examination, case history- in person at the local doctor's office (Doctor of Chiropractic), get an Xray, and perhaps that MRI and EMG). This complete evaluation will rule out the more severe diagnoses, rule out fractures/ dislocations/ cancers/ tumors/ occult pathology. Be thankful that you are in the U.K. and can get these tests done quickly, easily, and free.
I have a Chiropractic Fraternity Brother that practices in the U.K.- perhaps his Email will be of help to you, perhaps you are close by, perhaps he can refer you to someone close to you:
[email protected] , Dr. Scott D. White, DC Location:
51a Queen Street
Ballymoney, United Kingdom, BT53 6JDPhone:
+442827666667
".....I have an odd pain- feels more like an itch or an irritation and feels like its inside my hip. On looking at body maps I can line it up with several points- its a definate point but I am unable to see my own back to tell! (Please excuse my spelling I am not an expert by any means! Its in line with the siatic joint as well as the Iliac Cresent and as well as the Quadratus Lumborum muscles- but not all the way up, just where it touches my hip bone)....."- a good physical examination by your local Doctor of Chiropractic will tell you if this is a Lumbar Spine problem, a Lumbo-Sacral problem, a Sacro-Iliac problem, a Hip problem, a referred pain, perhaps even a visceral pain.
This physical examination by your DC will then indicate the need for an Xray or not. Most Chiropractic Doctors do prefer to work with an Xray examination of the area of complaint.
This examination and Xray may, in turn, show the need for further investigation- such as an MRI and/or an EMG of the area. Your Doctor- looking to give the best diagnosis, to allow for the best plan of care- may need these additional sophisticated tests.
".....Its driving me CRAZY! Its there when I walk, when I try to sleep, when I am sitting in a chair, really doesn't have a set point or any pattern, its there all the time. I exercise quite a bit, cardio and have done so for years (I am 29). After exercising I feel it ache rather then itch....."- this ache, this 'itch' is your body talking to you. You may not understand the message the body is telling you,,,, so it is important to go to a specialist that does understand the language of the body (especially through the above process- examination and testing), to answer the body's call for help, the body's call for you to 'take a look at this!'.
"....I also have noticed that I subconciously now pull at my hips- sort of as if I am trying to stretch my obliques as I have noticed if I pull at that muscle, whilst I am doing so the pain/ache/irriation subsides. It does return though- soon as I regain normal posture. I also notice that when I do pull at my hips, after exercise and the next day I get a horrible pinching sensation running down the outside of my thigh running towards my knee (worse at the top)....."- sometimes people think that a stretch, a yoga class, an exercise will correct their underlying condition. SOMETIMES that can be a 'cure'. MANY times that stretch is NOT a cure, as you can see--- you stretch, it feels good for a short time, but the problem has NOT been corrected, the symptom returns.
The good thing about this stretch helping you is that this does kind of indicate that this is musculoskeletal in origin; perhaps a subluxation (more on that later).
"....I have been to my doctor a month ago (its been 2 months with this) she said lowe back pain was common and the only thing I could do would be to stregnthen my core muscles which I have been doing to no effect. I do back extentions, core stability classes, sit ups...nothing helps....."- as stated before, if this is a subluxation, a misalignment, a 'kink', all the chemicals (medications), all the stretching, all the massage in the world--- will NOT correct the problem. The 'kink' is a physical/ mechanical/ structural/ positional problem that needs a physical/ mechanical/ structural/ positional correction = a chiropractic adjustment (more on that later).
"....I cannot touch it to massage it as it feels really deep inside my body. Its a similar sensation to exercises like buttox clenches- that horrible irriating sensation where its half pain and half ache and also something else- Leaves me in a bad mood and very irriated....."- ceratinly aches/ pains can leave us irritated, physically sore, mentally upset.
".....Pills do nothing. I have tried all the over the counter things and also a NSAID which is only available by prescription (Mefemniac Acid 500mg). Nothing takes the feeling away....."- medications (chemicals) will not correct a mechanical problem. Perhaps you drive a nice car?- if your front end is out of alignment-> your front end needs to be mechanically REaligned,,, expensive gas will do nothing for the wheel alignment.
In my Staten Island Chiropractic office I actually have an informational handout that I give to many of my patients on the ineffectiveness of medications for just such complaints, perhaps this will also be helpful to you:
PAIN
Pain is a 憆ed light on the dashboard?
RED LIGHT = Trouble !!
Pain is your body telling you that something is wrong.
Think you should listen??
That RED LIGHT on the dashboard of your car-
-- do you ignore it until the car breaks down,
or do you get it checked and correct the problem?
Pain,
pain in your body-
-- do you ignore it until your body breaks down,
or do you get it checked and correct the problem?
Pain,
do you cover up the pain by taking a painkiller?
Take a painkiller,
mask the pain,
and allow a problem to progress in your body?
Pain Killing medication??? = 16,000 deaths ( probably under-reported )
DEATH ! ? ! ? better watch out on those medications!!!
NOTICE ON PAIN RELIEVERS:
Label changes ORDERED by FDA; the FDA announced proposed label changes for OTC over-the-counter pain relievers to include the potential for stomach bleeding and liver damage (FDA news 206- 207; 12-9-06) ;
SIXTEEN THOUSAND DEATHS: "Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are effective medications for the treatment of many chronically painful medical conditions. However, it is estimated that 25% of all serious adverse drug reactions involve NSAIDs, with more than 100,000 hospitalizations and 16,000 deaths occurring annually due to NSAID-induced gastrointestinal (GI) events."----- http://hhc.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/13/6/468 Home Health Care Management & Practice, Vol. 13, No. 6, 468-475 (2001) Motrin, Advil = NSAIDS
The American Heart Association issued a scientific statement recommending medical doctors change the way they prescribe OTC pain relievers from a first choice to an alternate of recommending non-pharmacologic treatment (AHA statement 2-26-07).
NSAID Acceleration of ARTHRITIS; an important side effect of Aspirin and other NSAIDS is that it will inhibit cartilage repair and accelerate cartilage destruction ( Journal of Rheumatology, 1982; 9: 3- 5 ). Many times people take NSAIDS for the pain of Arthritis, not realizing these drugs may make the underlying condition worse. These medications cover up the pain, and cause the problem to worsen.
http://rinf.com/alt-news/business-news/prescription-drugs-kill-300-percent-more-
= An analysis of 168,900 autopsies conducted in Florida in 2007 found that three times as many people were killed by legal drugs as by cocaine, heroin and all methamphetamines put together. BE CAREFUL WITH THAT MEDICATION !!!
It was reported in 2000, that 700,000 U.S. citizens die as a result from medical causes (iatrogenics). Of course, other records and statistics had the number above the one million mark. Whether 700,000 or one million people, that's a lot of innocent people dying from visiting a hospital and trusting a medical doctor.= http://www.dherbs.com/articles/iatrogenics-99.html
Pain can often be the result of the Vertebral Subluxation Complex.
Vertebral Subluxation is actually a quite common condition. Doctors of Chiropractic look for pathological conditions which may require referral to other specialties, and also look for 慡ubluxation? Other disciplines look for pathology, but overlook the importance of alignment and movement in the spine which affects our nervous system (the master control system- ALL health disciplines learn this). VSC- 慡ubluxation??can be the cause of many symptoms and conditions.
Only a Doctor of Chiropractic will evaluate and treat for VSC, as well as other pathology.
The course of VSC is highly variable. Some patients with VSC literally cannot walk, yet other patients with similar test findings may be able to run marathons or lift heavy weights. Some patients immediately develop symptoms related to the VSC, some patients take years to develop symptoms. Some people suffer for only a few days with pain and symptoms, some people suffer for months. Some people recover in days, some take months or years, depending upon severity of the condition.
A subluxation interferes with the proper functioning of the nervous system (the master system which controls and coordinates all function within the body) and may cause various other conditions, symptoms and problems.
The Vertebral Subluxation Complex describes what happens when spinal bones lose their normal movement patterns and position. When subluxated, joints are in a stressed, vulnerable, compromised condition. Subluxation may cause Arthritis, Disk Herniation, or aggravate such conditions.
Vertebral Subluxation cannot be corrected through chemicals (medicine), stretching, yoga, vitamins or physical therapy alone. Subluxation- a neuro/skeletal/muscular- mechanical- problem requires a mechanical correction- - - a manipulation, best performed with the chiropractic adjustment.
Dr. Victor E. Dolan, Doctor of Chiropractic; Diplomate, American Chiropractic Board of Sport Physicians; Diplomate, American Academy of Pain Management; Certified Clinical Nutritionist (IAACN); FIRST Chief of Chiropractic in a Hospital in New York State (DHSI); As Seen in PREVENTION Magazine, Invited to Colorado Springs (Olympic Training Center) to Care for USA Olympic Athletes 2010
I hope those paragraphs are helpful to you! The medications may or may not even address your pain,,,, but be aware, the medication is NOT addressing the CAUSE of the pain (ache, 'itch').
".....Is there any form of exercise I can do? is it a good idea to yank at my hips like that? -I'm guessing no but thought I should ask incase. (Its a subconcious thing anyway). I cannot afford a Physio and my doctor has no advice for me either. I would welcome any suggestions!..."
As you can see, my recommendation is that you see your local Doctor (of Chiropractic) for an evaluation and possible Chiropractic care (if appropriate by exam findings).
You sound like you are stretching, massaging, exercising and trying to 'work it out'- you also sound like this is NOT working, so I do not know of any other self-help I can recommend.
I am surprised to hear you say that you ".....cannot afford a Physio....", as we have been told healthcare is fully covered with your national government insurance and free. Plese use your free health care to see your DC, get the Xray, MRI, EMG that you need for proper evaluation, and then proper therapeutic care.
You talk about exercise, and you are young, perhaps you are into competitive sports- this information may be helpful/ interesting to you as well:
Athletic Performance Improvement, Accelerated Recovery
Chiropractic is well known to improve athletic performance, prevent sport injury, and accelerate recovery from injury or hard training. With Doctors of Chiropractic serving on almost every nation抯 Olympic Team, with Chiropractic holding official status with the USOC and serving almost every US Olympic Athlete: the results of chiropractic cannot be denied. Coaches and athletes are aware of terms such as
enhanced performance, performance improvement, .
accelerated recovery, restoration and regeneration. .
Many coaching conferences discuss strategies on these aspects of exercise, competition, sports and athleticism.
An interesting study was performed and published way back in 1991. The January 1991 issue of the Journal of Chiropractic Research and Clinical Investigation published findings that demonstrate significant increases in athletic performance after a twelve week program of Chiropractic treatment.
Athletic Ability Research:
Male and female athletes between the ages of 18 and 42, representing a variety of sports backgrounds, were recruited to participate in this study. None had ever before been under chiropractic care. Each of these participants underwent eleven separate tests, each test designed to measure a specific aspect of athletic performance. Then, half the participants were evaluated through chiropractic analysis and placed on a twelve week program of chiropractic treatment ( consistent regimen of chiropractic, similar to a consistent regimen of physical athletic training/ exercise ). ( measured aspects: side step test, dodging run, right boomerang run, modified bass tests of dynamic balance, vertical power jump, standing broad jump, distance perception jump, horizontal linear space test, nelson hand reaction test, nelson speed of movement test, nelson choice of response-movement test )
All subjects continued to train and practice as usual in their sports. At the half-way point of six weeks, they were all reevaluated and changes in scores for each group were compared. All increases in performances by each group were measured by the average percent of change in all eleven tests combined.
The control group, those not receiving chiropractic care, showed slight improvement in eight of eleven tests ( this group had been training 慳s usual?for the time period ). By combining the average percentages of change on each test it was found that the control group showed an overall improvement of 4.5%.
Those receiving chiropractic treatment (along with their 憉sual training?, the test group, had dramatically different results. They showed improvement on all eleven tests for a total 10.7% average increase after six weeks. And when retested again after the second six week period of care this test group demonstrated a remarkable 16.7% average increase in athletic ability.
( consider that one/ onehundredth of a second ( 1/100th ) is the difference between win ?lose,,, 16.7% is HUGE )
What Do Chiropractors Do?
Chiropractors analyze the structure of the body, looking for misalignments, primarily in the spine, and also the extremities. Spinal misalignments, termed vertebral subluxations, irritate the nerves which in turn inhibits the body抯 ability to function optimally. Like a high performance automobile, the human structure must be balanced and in alignment to be at it抯 best. A Ferrari with pistons that don抰 fire in sequence, wheels that are out of balance or alignment, and high performance specifications that are improperly set will not only have it抯 performance compromised but will also have dramatically increased potential for parts to wear out and breakdown. The human body, far more delicate and complicated than even the most advanced automobile is similar. If the framework, particularly the spine, isn抰 properly aligned and balanced- the body cannot perform to it抯 potential and is more susceptible to illness and injury, with slower recovery when injury does occur.
What Do Vertebral Subluxations Do?
Vertebral subluxations cause nerve conduction interference. This inhibits millions of messages from the brain from flowing smoothly along the nerves and in this in turn interferes with the coordination of the actions of the body. The only health care provider trained to diagnose and correct vertebral subluxations is the Doctor of Chiropractic. Like a properly tuned Ferrari, the chiropractic patient athlete, when properly aligned, functions at a level of peak performance.
Famous Athletes Utilize Chiropractics.
Many athletes have discovered the relationship between proper spinal alignment and their own level of achievement. San Francisco Forty-Niner Greats Joe Montana and Roger Craig as well as heavy weight champion Evander Holyfield are examples of professional and world-class athletes who realize(d) the value of proper structural alignment and balance in their bodies. They have learned through their own experiences what research has shown; that through chiropractic care - one can demonstrate faster reaction time, better balance, improved coordination, increased muscular power; and when injured- accelerated recovery and regeneration.
The Competitive Edge.
Emphasis on athletic excellence continues to escalate in this country in terms of both dollars and extremes in personal sacrifice. Though the dangers of taking anabolic steroids have been widely publicized for years, the number of athletes who suffer serious health problems caused steroids continues to grow. Now, however, the athlete looking for the competitive edge need not look beyond the framework of his(her) own body. Increased public awareness is leading many to realize that a natural method is available in achieving performance enhancement. The method is Chiropractic!
The method is Chiropractic!
Dr. Victor E. Dolan, Doctor of Chiropractic; Diplomate, American Chiropractic Board of Sport Physicians; Diplomate, American Academy of Pain Management; Certified Clinical Nutritionist (IAACN); FIRST Chief of Chiropractic in a Hospital in New York State (DHSI); As Seen in PREVENTION Magazine, Invited to Colorado Springs (Olympic Training Center) to Care for USA Olympic Athletes 2010
Of course your question essentially deals with 'Low Back Pain'; my Staten Island Low Back Pain patients get this information upon entry into my office:
( I hope this helpful to you as well )
Lower Back Pain (LBP):
Low Back Pain can be caused by many different things.
Big, BAD, catastrophic things like a tumor or a cancer can cause low back pain (only a proper exam by a licensed doctor, like your Doctor of Chiropractic, or your family Doctor of Medicine, can evaluate your signs and symptoms, and perhaps refer for testing).
Big, bad things like a Herniated Disc, sciatica, possible fracture or dislocation can cause LBP (again, best evaluated by your DC or MD, and perhaps referral).
Bad things, like - Sprains, Strains, contusion, or Vertebral Subluxation Complex (all very efficiently diagnosed and treated by your Doctor Of Chiropractic. LBP can come from a motor vehicle accident, sport injury, slip, trip, fall, arthritis, lifting improperly, or even bad posture in standing, sitting or sleeping. All of these things often have a Lumbar (Low Back) Vertebral Subluxation involved.
Vertebral Subluxation Complex (a.k.a. 憇ubluxation?
The vertebral subluxation complex is the underlying cause of many healthcare problems. A subluxation interferes with the proper functioning of the nervous system (the master system which controls and coordinates all function within the body) and may cause various other conditions, symptoms and problems.
This is a serious condition identified by its five parts:
Spinal Kinesiopathology:
This is fancy way of saying the bones of the spine have lost their normal motion and position. It restricts your ability to turn and bend. It sets in motion the other four components.
Neuropathophysiology:
Improper spinal function can choke, stretch, or irritate delicate nerve tissue. The resulting nerve system dysfunction can cause symptoms elsewhere in the body.
Myopathology:
Muscles supporting the spine can weaken, atrophy, or become tight and go into spasm. The resulting scar tissue changes muscle tone, requiring repeated spinal adjustments.
Histopathology:
A rise in temperature from an increase in blood and lymph supplies result in swelling and inflammation. Discs can bulge, herniate, tear, or degenerate. Other soft tissues may suffer permanent damage.
Pathophysiology:
Bone spurs and other abnormal bony growths attempt to fuse malfunctioning spinal joints. This spinal decay, scar tissue, and long-term nerve dysfunction can cause other systems of the body to malfunction.
The Vertebral Subluxation Complex describes what happens when spinal bones lose their normal movement patterns and position.
Automobile accidents, improper lifting, improper posture, alcohol, emotional stress, chemical imbalances, and long periods of sitting can cause the Vertebral Subluxation Complex.
Vertebral Subluxation cannot be corrected through chemicals (medicine), stretching, yoga, vitamins or physical therapy alone. Subluxation- a neuro/skeletal/muscular- mechanical- problem requires a mechanical correction- - - a manipulation, best performed with the chiropractic adjustment. Only a Doctor of Chiropractic will evaluate you for VSC- as well as the other possible pathologies.
Dr. Victor E. Dolan, Doctor of Chiropractic; Diplomat, American Chiropractic Board of Sport Physicians; Diplomat, American Academy of Pain Management; Certified Clinical Nutritionist (IAACN); FIRST Chief of Chiropractic in a Hospital in New York State (DHSI); As Seen in PREVENTION Magazine
There are various SPECIALTIES in Chiropractic- similar to our medical 'cousins': see - http://www.acatoday.org/pdf/ApprovedChiropracticSpecialtyPrograms.pdf
you may want to choose from among these different credentials.
I hope all of this information helps. I wish you luck. Contact my colleague in the U.K., he will steer you right! Do not hesitate to REcontact me here at Allexperts.com if you need further info- http://www.allexperts.com/ep/965-100794/Chiropractors/Victor-Dolan-DC-DACBSP.htm
Wishing you Good Health, Naturally,
Dr. Victor Dolan, DC
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thanks for your advice- really helpful and I will need to read through things few times, thankyou.
Just wanted to claify a few things about the "free health care" we have in the UK.
First of all, the physiotherapists we see are rarely specialised, they are generalists and for example, after an 8 month wait (12 months after the pain had started) I was able to see a physio for what was now (when I look back at it) very obviously posterior tibial tendonitus, the physio did not know what was wrong. 6 months I was hopping on the leg in order to bring on the pain so it would recover, in those 6 months it only ever got worse. I stopped seeing the physio, bought a new pair of trainers and stopped runing for a while- the pain went away after about 6 months.
Just because it is free does not mean its always sucessful and in this example proves to me that a generalist physio rather then a speicalist or sports physio which are not available on the NHS.
Added to that, not all services are available also. One example is an eating disorder I have, once was anorexia nervosa at a sevear level, 'luckily' as I was so ill I was refered to another area, but within my area, there was no such service, had I not been so unwell I would not have been able to get any help. Now to my back, if there is no such help in my area (we call it the "post code lottery", post code being what defines the area you live in) and it is not deemed as sevear (I am not in a wheelchair so its not deemed as sevear) then there is no chance of getting any treatment.
And a further complication is funding. It may seem like its free but treatment comes from a fund, the NHS budget. All doctors are aware of this budget and don't like to spend from it. If the problem is serious they will- if they don't they could land themselves a law suit, but they wont spend unless they absolutly have to. A blood test requested by a dietition I saw some years ago was requested. I was asked to pay for it when I saw my doctor. I had to get the dietition to write them a letter requesting it and you could almost see blood from rage in the doctors eyes as she allowed the blood test to happen- trust me, doctors do not allow any sort of treatment unless it is life and death.
It could be the lack of salary which prevents the volume of sports physios and back specialists working for the NHS but there are lists and waiting upwards of 6 months is not unusual. Infact its lucky, some places have waiting lists of up to 18 months. I am fairly sure I wont be referred to a back specialist unless I wait for another 4 months (having then had the pain for 6 months) and then I may either be referred for treatment or put on a waiting list for several months (or both). Theres no promise I will even get the help as the initial appointment may have a doctor who assumes I am fine without asking any real questions as my mother found whilst trying to get help for a foot problem.
Just wanted to add that as, as much as it may look like we have it all- and we do have alot I recognise that, we do not by any means have everything, what we do have entails waiting lists if your lucky and able to be allowed to get onto a waiting list.
AnswerThank You Jennie,
Thank you for your description of your experience with 'free health care', or nationalized heathcare, or socialized medicine.
In the USA we are presented that the U.S. has the worst healthcare, and that socialized medicine as in your country is much better (....Just because it is free does not mean its always sucessful.....").
No one talks about waiting lists or --- being LUCKY to be ABLE to get on a waiting list!
No one here talks about any limitation on services, "......not all services are available....", and "....but within my area, there was no such service....", = This is not the wonderful picture painted here of 'FREE National Healthcare'.
No one talks about 'being lucky' to get care with nationalized healthcare.
No one here talks about a 6 month, or EIGHTEEN MONTH wait list for any type of care!-- "....after an 8 month wait (12 months after the pain had started) I was able to see a physio ..." = this actually adds up to 20 months .
No one here talks about any limitation on testing or treatment- ".....doctors are aware of this budget and don't like to spend from it.....", so doctors hesitate to give a complete evaluation!?
No one talks about a lack of salary for healthcare specialists in the nationalized free healthcare system!- ".....It could be the lack of salary which prevents the volume of sports physios and back specialists working for the NHS but there are lists and waiting upwards of 6 months is not unusual. Infact its lucky, some places have waiting lists of up to 18 months....".
No one presents waiting lists, and IF YOU ARE LUCKY- being able to even get on the waiting list,
"....what we do have entails waiting lists if your lucky and able to be allowed to get onto a waiting list......"!
Thank You for some real life experience in the Free National Healthcare arena- not what we are being told here in America as some people want to drastically change our healthcare system.
Thanks,
Dr. Vic
